Hello!

I will be getting a tablet PC (thinking about the Motion Computing
LE800), and will be buying a flightplanning software package for IFR
soon. I've been looking around at all the different options (Seattle
Avionics Voyager/GlassView), RMS FlightsoftPro/Vista, FlightPrep,
EverywhereMap, etc. It is quite confusing. It seems that Seattle
Avionics is the most reasonably priced, but SLOW! FlightPrep looks
nice, but at $500/yr, a bit too pricey for my blood. Flightsoft seems
like it might have everything, but not sure, and they don't allow a
trial download. What are your experiences?

Thanks!

Been there, done that. Comments below.

On 9/12/2005 10:40 AM, FlyBean wrote the following:
> Hello!
>
> I will be getting a tablet PC (thinking about the Motion Computing
> LE800),

You want the View Anywhere screen, which I understand is not quite yet
available. Also, that one is 800x600, so things will be a little more crowded
than on the 1024x768 screens like my HP T1100.

and will be buying a flightplanning software package for IFR
> soon. I've been looking around at all the different options (Seattle
> Avionics Voyager/GlassView), RMS FlightsoftPro/Vista, FlightPrep,
> EverywhereMap, etc. It is quite confusing.

Yes. This area of the market is changing almost hourly. You just have to bite
the bullet and make your best decision.

> It seems that Seattle
> Avionics is the most reasonably priced, but SLOW!

and immature. Re slow, they are doomed because they are using MS dot-net. Also
huge amounts of memory required. I do have/use Smartplates though and like it.

FlightPrep looks
> nice, but at $500/yr, a bit too pricey for my blood.

They have just changed their pricing policy so you don't have to buy the full
subscription. Check with them. (like I said, the situation changes fast!)
Also, that is the price for the top of the line moving map, etc. not just for
the flight planner.

Flightprep is the one I chose, one reason being that they offered to add me to
their beta test team. They announced 3.0 at OSH and I can tell you that it is
pretty spectacular. Beyond that, you'll have to see what they have published on
it as I am under an NDA. Release is a month or two out, I think.

Flightsoft seems
> like it might have everything, but not sure, and they don't allow a
> trial download. What are your experiences?
>

Same reason I rejected it. No trial period. (Same problem with AnyWhere map
which is really a PDA application anyway.) Also, I think RMS is well behind
Seattle Avionics and Flightprep on the availability of georeferenced charts and
plates. Don't know about SA, but Flightprep even has the airport diagrams
georeferenced. That's pretty neat at a strange airport!

Mitty wrote On 09/12/05 09:46,:

>> It seems that Seattle
>>Avionics is the most reasonably priced, but SLOW!
>
>
> and immature. Re slow, they are doomed because they are using MS dot-net. Also
> huge amounts of memory required. I do have/use Smartplates though and like it.

..net suffers mainly from "diarreah of the .dll", but so do a lot of C/C++ based
applications. Also, are they doing all of it, or just part of it, in .net ?
>
> FlightPrep looks
>
>>nice, but at $500/yr, a bit too pricey for my blood.
>

Nobody likes Jepp flightmap anymore ?

On 9/12/2005 1:35 PM, Scott Moore wrote the following:
>
> Mitty wrote On 09/12/05 09:46,:
>
>
>>>It seems that Seattle
>>>Avionics is the most reasonably priced, but SLOW!
>>
>>
>>and immature. Re slow, they are doomed because they are using MS dot-net. Also
>>huge amounts of memory required. I do have/use Smartplates though and like it.
>
>
> .net suffers mainly from "diarreah of the .dll", but so do a lot of C/C++ based
> applications. Also, are they doing all of it, or just part of it, in .net ?
>

I don't know the fine points. What I know is that I had to get a giant download
from M$ just to run the SA stuff at all and that it is very slow and very, very
memory hungry. I am running only the Smartplates module, which consumes 69 meg
of memory just to catalog and print out a few pieces of paper. This is over
three times the size of Word and four times the size of Excel, both of which
actually DO something with their pieces of paper and neither of which is
renowned for being parsimonious with system resources.

I am willing to tolerate this because I like the app, but that does not mean I
think the design decision was in users' best interests.

> Nobody likes Jepp flightmap anymore ?

Not FliteMap, but the new JeppView & FliteDeck. I am going to be
flamed, but I love mine.

Number one complaint about Jepp products is their price. But if you
don't need the whole country, just subscript to your local area and buy
Tripkit when you make that once a year long trip. I paid $100 one-time
plus $195 a year for southwest area. A JeppView Tripkit costs about
the same as printed Tripkit which is around $55 for most areas.

If the moving map is what you are after, FliteMap is better than
anything else I have tried.

FlyBean wrote:
> Hello!
>
> I will be getting a tablet PC (thinking about the Motion Computing
> LE800), and will be buying a flightplanning software package for IFR
> soon. I've been looking around at all the different options (Seattle
> Avionics Voyager/GlassView), RMS FlightsoftPro/Vista, FlightPrep,
> EverywhereMap, etc. It is quite confusing. It seems that Seattle
> Avionics is the most reasonably priced, but SLOW! FlightPrep looks
> nice, but at $500/yr, a bit too pricey for my blood. Flightsoft seems
> like it might have everything, but not sure, and they don't allow a
> trial download. What are your experiences?
>
> Thanks!
>

Flightsoft is great. Been using it since before windows. Very stable,
good updates, sectionals low altitude, etc. all downloaded. About $100
per year.

Mitty wrote:
>
> I don't know the fine points.

Keep this in mind...

> ...
> I am willing to tolerate this because I like the app, but that does
> not mean I think the design decision was in users' best interests.

Poor design is an issue regardless of platform and what you described is
more a function of poor application design than an issue with .NET.

You made the comment "they are doomed because they are using .NET", but then
admit you don't know the "fine points" and describe a series of issues
unrelated to the use of .NET. Rather than make a blanket statement you know
to be based on ignorance, why not send them a note informing them of your
decision and the reasons for it. You may be surprised to know how valuable
your feedback is to the development team.

--
John T
http://tknowlogy.com/TknoFlyer
http://www.pocketgear.com/products_search.asp?developerid=4415
Reduce spam. Use Sender Policy Framework: http://spf.pobox.com
____________________

One really doesn't need to know the fine points. All one needs to know is that
the app is based on Microsoft "technology." Huge and slow follow as the tail
follows the dog.

They have been doing this for years because they are financially motivated to
avoid small and fast. Huge and slow drives purchases of new computers, which
not at all coincidentally is Microsoft's main revenue driver.

Everything else is fine points.

Incidentally, I began my career as a computer architect and programmer when it
was still necessary to build a room if you wanted a computer and I had an
ARPAnet ID long before anyone realized what it would become. So I do have a bit
of perspective about these things.

(Sorry for the OT response to the OT post. I'll not post OT in this thread again.)

On 9/18/2005 9:12 AM, John T wrote the following:
> Mitty wrote:
>
>>I don't know the fine points.
>
>
> Keep this in mind...
>
>
>>...
>>I am willing to tolerate this because I like the app, but that does
>>not mean I think the design decision was in users' best interests.
>
>
> Poor design is an issue regardless of platform and what you described is
> more a function of poor application design than an issue with .NET.
>
> You made the comment "they are doomed because they are using .NET", but then
> admit you don't know the "fine points" and describe a series of issues
> unrelated to the use of .NET. Rather than make a blanket statement you know
> to be based on ignorance, why not send them a note informing them of your
> decision and the reasons for it. You may be surprised to know how valuable
> your feedback is to the development team.
>

Mitty wrote:
> One really doesn't need to know the fine points. All one needs to
> know is that the app is based on Microsoft "technology." Huge and
> slow follow as the tail follows the dog.

Ah, so you have an anti-MS bias. That's OK as long as people realize it
when reading your posts saying that just because something is built on x
technology it must be inferior/slow/poorly designed/what-have-you.

It's kinda like saying "that plane can't possibly be any good because it has
a Lycoming engine." Or "it uses a G1000". Or, perhaps most accurately,
"it's made by Cessna/Piper/Cirrus/Lancair."

> Incidentally, I began my career as a computer architect and
> programmer when it was still necessary to build a room if you wanted a
> computer and I
> had an ARPAnet ID long before anyone realized what it would become. So I
> do
> have a bit of perspective about these things.

Then you should understand the value of consumer feedback. If you haven't
already, send the developers a note stating your observations on performance
and usability.

Unless, of course, you want them to fail - which is OK, too, really.

--
John T
http://tknowlogy.com/TknoFlyer
http://www.pocketgear.com/products_search.asp?developerid=4415
Reduce spam. Use Sender Policy Framework: http://spf.pobox.com
____________________

Actually, I did write an e-mail to them, explaining my problem (i.e.
Voyager brings my 256 MB PIIIM Sony Vaio to its knees, crawling to do
anything), but never received a reply from them.

As for Jeppesen, I had a friend who had the whole shabang installed
(JeppView, JeppStar, and FlightDeck). He finally went over to
FlightPrep back when it was still $350/yr incl. on-line and unlimited
updates. Jepp seemed pretty good, but could never find any information
on line about the new package. I finally called them, and they gave me
the "secret" URL http://www.jeppesen.com/navsuite. There it is! With
Great Lakes coverage, it come out to about $560/yr. That is now
cheaper than FlightPrep and includes paper LowAlt charts, but of course
is only Great Lakes, so don't go too far without a Trip Kit.

I am now trying to get AirPlan from RazorsEdge working, but keep
getting errors. They are working with me to fix it, though. We shall
see...